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Rapier upgrade to E-100

 
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Jerry Guberman
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Joined: 23 Apr 2000
Posts: 23
Location: Irvine, CA, USA

PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2000 10:11 am    Post subject: Rapier upgrade to E-100 Reply with quote

I'm dismayed over the comments made on various websites, that my E-100 is NOT upgradeable to the new Rapier software. I spent a year and a half, before I purchased the E-100 in July, 26th '99. Everything I read, investigated, and also talking with supposedly knowledgable technical sales people, and even in some Sunday advertisements, all implied the E-100, IS fully upgradeable. My investment in the Cassiopeia was over $700, with additonal software and accessories, (only to find out) that within 9 months, I may have to "spend more" to improve the software! Ref: the change out of the ROM thtat is required? Did not Microsoft consider this, when designing new software? Did not Casio care? Maybe Microsoft should be compelled to release the "CODE", so that enterprenurial programmers can develop software around the ROM problem. Certainly some of the "new" features are worthwhile...as indicative of the increase in speed of the OS and ClearType.
Certainly, I could spend another $100 or two, to have Casio upgrade the ROM....but how would my E-100 be returned to me? Working properly? Damaged? Scratched? Dinged? I'm not even sure, that Casio will offer to upgrade.
I think that anyone who puchased the E-100 & 105, within the last 12 months should be given consideration, and get a replacement
Pocket PC.."FREE"! After a year, no more than $50 should be chargede to upgrade and with new full warranties.
Well....I'll wait and see...


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JerryG
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ChrisDeHerrera
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Joined: 01 Feb 2000
Posts: 7017
Location: Los Angeles, CA, USA

PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2000 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,
I believe that your philosophy on upgrades is unrealistic. If the manufacturers did what you wanted, what would be their incentive to introduce the upgrade at all? They are out to make a profit and giving away software and support costs money.

I truly believe that Casio intended to be able to offer an upgrade when they introduced the E-100/105. The issue is one of how much will it cost for the upgrade and is it better to offer a trade-in instead. Casio chose to offer a trade-in instead.

These are tough decisions for a manufacturer to make. They are based on their internal costs for upgrades and the anticipated number of users that would want to upgrade.

Your senaro would require the manufacturers to see financial compensation in other ways such as paying for technical support or higher initial pricing. Do we really want that?

quote:
Originally posted by Jerry Guberman:
I'm dismayed over the comments made on various websites, that my E-100 is NOT upgradeable to the new Rapier software. I spent a year and a half, before I purchased the E-100 in July, 26th '99. Everything I read, investigated, and also talking with supposedly knowledgable technical sales people, and even in some Sunday advertisements, all implied the E-100, IS fully upgradeable. My investment in the Cassiopeia was over $700, with additonal software and accessories, (only to find out) that within 9 months, I may have to "spend more" to improve the software! Ref: the change out of the ROM thtat is required? Did not Microsoft consider this, when designing new software? Did not Casio care? Maybe Microsoft should be compelled to release the "CODE", so that enterprenurial programmers can develop software around the ROM problem. Certainly some of the "new" features are worthwhile...as indicative of the increase in speed of the OS and ClearType.
Certainly, I could spend another $100 or two, to have Casio upgrade the ROM....but how would my E-100 be returned to me? Working properly? Damaged? Scratched? Dinged? I'm not even sure, that Casio will offer to upgrade.
I think that anyone who puchased the E-100 & 105, within the last 12 months should be given consideration, and get a replacement
Pocket PC.."FREE"! After a year, no more than $50 should be chargede to upgrade and with new full warranties.
Well....I'll wait and see...







------------------
Chris De Herrera
Microsoft MVP - Windows CE
http://www.cewindows.net - The most complete set of FAQs on Windows CE
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HHCanada
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Joined: 30 Mar 2000
Posts: 46
Location: BC, Canada

PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2000 9:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I gotta agree with Chris on this one... most of the manufacturers provide pretty good support. It would be VERY expensive for them to offer free upgrades to anyone who purchased in the last 12 months. This cost would have to be incorporated in the device up front and would probably make them too expensive for most people to consider.


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Owen Taylor
www.handheldcanada.com
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Jerry Guberman
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Joined: 23 Apr 2000
Posts: 23
Location: Irvine, CA, USA

PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2000 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As a ex-manufacturing type and a current business owner...I deal with the real world of obsolescence constantly. Just recently, when one of the worlds largest shipping companies required having its authorized service outlets change their software, I had to upgrade "several computers: and related hardware. In some cases scraping whole systems. The difference here, I knew it was coming several years ago. In this case, with Casio, I feel I was blindsided. Had I not researched this E-100, but made the purchase casually...I wouldn't complain. As a reference, read what Hal Goldstein wrote in the November/December issue of HandheldPC Magazine...I quote: "Microsoft is ramping up for the new and improved version of Windows CE (code named "Rapier") sometime next year. Now is an excellent time to be aboard the windows CE bandwagon".
Yes, Casio is here to make money, and though I could guess at the actual manufacturing cost of the E-100, at the going "retail" just a few dollars more (which I would have gladly paid), they could have included the flashable ROM. It's hard for me to beleive that they did NOT know that the new Microsift's new OS would require it, since they had to work closely Microsoft to produce the current model.
I don't want to sound "sour", but is it realistic for a product to be so new to the marketplace, that it become so instantly obsoltete.
Should the trade-in offered be reasonable, and I mean reasonable...I would consider it strongley, but I would hope that some of the Rapier's advantages could be utilized by the E-100 before that decision was made. Oh yes, it's not as if a competitor in the handheld market did this...the original manufacturer caused this.

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JerryG
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mumbo
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Joined: 31 Jan 2000
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2000 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For my .02, I feel Casio is doing the only think they can to support their current users. I would guess that they weren't exactly overjoyed my Microsoft's direction either. Too bad they didn't anticipate this and design the systems with flash-upgradable ROM's. I think ANY hardware mfg supporting a Microsoft OS NEEDS to be able to upgrade the firmware easily. How long have you had your *desktop* before upgrading the hardware?

quote:
Originally posted by ChrisDeHerrera:
Hi,
I believe that your philosophy on upgrades is unrealistic. If the manufacturers did what you wanted, what would be their incentive to introduce the upgrade at all? They are out to make a profit and giving away software and support costs money.

I truly believe that Casio intended to be able to offer an upgrade when they introduced the E-100/105. The issue is one of how much will it cost for the upgrade and is it better to offer a trade-in instead. Casio chose to offer a trade-in instead.

These are tough decisions for a manufacturer to make. They are based on their internal costs for upgrades and the anticipated number of users that would want to upgrade.

Your senaro would require the manufacturers to see financial compensation in other ways such as paying for technical support or higher initial pricing. Do we really want that?






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ChrisDeHerrera
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Joined: 01 Feb 2000
Posts: 7017
Location: Los Angeles, CA, USA

PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2000 5:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,
16 Mb of Flash roms for the E-100/105 would have added approximately $50-75 to the cost of the device. Would you have really paid $650 or $675 to get one?

If so, then let's get the word out to the OEMs that cost is not really the issue here.

quote:
Originally posted by mumbo:
For my .02, I feel Casio is doing the only think they can to support their current users. I would guess that they weren't exactly overjoyed my Microsoft's direction either. Too bad they didn't anticipate this and design the systems with flash-upgradable ROM's. I think ANY hardware mfg supporting a Microsoft OS NEEDS to be able to upgrade the firmware easily. How long have you had your *desktop* before upgrading the hardware?






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Chris De Herrera
Microsoft MVP - Windows CE
http://www.cewindows.net - The most complete set of FAQs on Windows CE
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mumbo
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Joined: 31 Jan 2000
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2000 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yah.... But I'm going to pay at least that to upgrade anyway. I doubt they are going to give me an upgrade for free. My guess is $100. Pay now or pay later.


quote:
Originally posted by ChrisDeHerrera:
Hi,
16 Mb of Flash roms for the E-100/105 would have added approximately $50-75 to the cost of the device. Would you have really paid $650 or $675 to get one?

If so, then let's get the word out to the OEMs that cost is not really the issue here.






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ChrisDeHerrera
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Joined: 01 Feb 2000
Posts: 7017
Location: Los Angeles, CA, USA

PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2000 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,
The bad news about flash roms are that you pay for them at the time you purchase, hope the vendor offers the upgrade and then they charge you again for the actual upgrade itself.

The only way this would be good for consumers is if there are more than 1 upgrade per life cycle of a machine. Right now this is not the case with Windows CE.

quote:
Originally posted by mumbo:
Yah.... But I'm going to pay at least that to upgrade anyway. I doubt they are going to give me an upgrade for free. My guess is $100. Pay now or pay later.







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Chris De Herrera
Microsoft MVP - Windows CE
http://www.cewindows.net - The most complete set of FAQs on Windows CE
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Jerry Guberman
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Joined: 23 Apr 2000
Posts: 23
Location: Irvine, CA, USA

PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2000 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In retrospect, I guess all this discussion is almost mute. We're @ the mercy of either Microsoft and/or Casio. However, I need to remind everyone that cost does play a part...just watch how quickly the prices begin to drop on the E-100/105. If, I remember correctly the E-100 debut for $599. While I was doing my research into the purchase...it dropped to $499. Look what's happening to the pricing of the Palm Pilots, once the "7" hit the market. So, how long do you think " a flashable ROM" Casio would stay @ $600 to $650. Wait and see the nosedive the E-115 takes over the next year, especially when everyone gets into the Pocket PC act. If Microsoft played it cool, and stayed "tight" with Casio, HP, Compaq they could have almost controlled the market while producing a heck of a machine and while developing a loyal following. Sometimes when one is too close to the industry, one can lose their objectivity.

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JerryG
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beyond cps
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Joined: 08 Apr 2000
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2000 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

just go and take a look what compaq is offering to their existing aero customers (at least compaq germany @ [url=http://www.compaq.de).]www.compaq.de).[/url]

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ChrisDeHerrera
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2000 5:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,
To be accurate on the pricing, the E-100 was $499 and the E-105 was $599. Only recently the prices have dropped significantly.

quote:
Originally posted by Jerry Guberman:
In retrospect, I guess all this discussion is almost mute. We're @ the mercy of either Microsoft and/or Casio. However, I need to remind everyone that cost does play a part...just watch how quickly the prices begin to drop on the E-100/105. If, I remember correctly the E-100 debut for $599. While I was doing my research into the purchase...it dropped to $499. Look what's happening to the pricing of the Palm Pilots, once the "7" hit the market. So, how long do you think " a flashable ROM" Casio would stay @ $600 to $650. Wait and see the nosedive the E-115 takes over the next year, especially when everyone gets into the Pocket PC act. If Microsoft played it cool, and stayed "tight" with Casio, HP, Compaq they could have almost controlled the market while producing a heck of a machine and while developing a loyal following. Sometimes when one is too close to the industry, one can lose their objectivity.






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Chris De Herrera
Microsoft MVP - Windows CE
http://www.cewindows.net - The most complete set of FAQs on Windows CE
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Jerry Guberman
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Joined: 23 Apr 2000
Posts: 23
Location: Irvine, CA, USA

PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2000 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, Chris....but I opened my Office Depot catalog dated 1999-2000, on page 287..it clearly show the E-100 @ 599.99. Admittedly, if I order through my business, the price would drop....but not as much as when I purchased the E-100 through Office Depot's advertised price of 499.99 at there retail store. Oh well...I will agree to one though, we beat this subject to death.

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JerryG
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